Talk:Leader of the Soviet Union
There are plenty of passages with room for improvement here.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 22:01, August 15, 2017 (UTC) The Gladiator Since HT has now allowed that the initial POD might have come before 1953, I'm thinking we should have a TGlad subsection showing pictures for Stalin and Putin, with what info we do know, and a lit com explaining that there are gaps in our knowledge. The Soviet alternate which HT built for this novel may not mention too many names, but it's awfully goddamn poignant and deserves better than a measly blip of lines in Other Leaders.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 10:37, January 14, 2018 (UTC) :Hyperbole aside, it's a fair point. TR (talk) 18:24, January 14, 2018 (UTC) :I don't see how Talk:Vladimir Putin#Leader of the Soviet Union chart does not still hold. ML4E (talk) 21:32, January 14, 2018 (UTC) ::HT's tweet blowing up what we thought we knew about the POD. Based on what he said, the POD could literally be anytime between 1917 and 1962. TR (talk) 21:47, January 14, 2018 (UTC) :::That's my point. The current Gladiator sub-section for Stalin says "After the USSR won the Cold War, Joseph Stalin was considered one of the great heroes of the Soviet Union ..." This doesn't even indicate he was the leader of the USSR only a hero, perhaps due to his revolutionary activity leading to the establishment of the state. Since the POD could be as far back as 1917 we can't give anyone as a Leader except for Putin, who was explicitly stated as being a leader. Anything else would be speculation. ML4E (talk) 22:14, January 15, 2018 (UTC) ::::Stalin is ID'd leader in the novel (as is Lenin). That section was written when we thought the POD was the Cuban Missile Crisis; we could probably punch it up a bit. TR (talk) 23:30, January 15, 2018 (UTC) Okay, I borrowed a copy of TGlad from the library yesterday and skimmed it last night. Items I noticed: 1) Marxism-Leninism-Stalinism is the governing ideology so both Lenin and Stalin were likely heads of the USSR. 2) Eduardo says the break-point was in the mid-20th century which would be 1940-1959 (maybe last part of 1930s to first part of 1960s). This eliminates going back to 1917 regardless of what Turtledove tweeted. 3) However, WW II and the Cold War happened on schedule (assuming the home timeline is OTL). This makes the POD after 1945. 4) The Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War also occurred with the US backing down on the first and withdrawing its troops in 1968 in the second. Conclusion: The POD would have to have been towards the end of Stalin's life or a little later. *Maybe Stalin died earlier so someone other than Khrushchev became the leader or on schedule and Khrushchev still didn't get it; *Or, Khrushchev got it on schedule and governed differently; *Or, Khrushchev governed the same and JFK behaved differently; *Or, JFK wasn't President and a more dovish President was elected in his place. Only known Leaders of the USSR are Stalin and Putin. There doesn't seem to be much use for a chart but a paragraph on known leaders might be in order for a Gladiator sub-section. ML4E (talk) 22:24, January 17, 2018 (UTC) :I can dig it. See, e.g., Prime Minister of the United Kingdom#Worldwar. TR (talk) 22:59, January 17, 2018 (UTC) :::Well how about that. If that is what you have in mind, then I am fine with that. ML4E (talk) 20:56, January 18, 2018 (UTC) ::HT said in his tweet that he intended the POD to be that the USSR always got a step ahead of the USA during the Cold War, with no specific event as the start. My interpretation based on that is that the POD came no earlier than 1945. In my headcanon I'm going with the idea that Khrushchev didn't become the leader, because Stalin doesn't seem to have been knocked off his pedestal. In my head-canon I imagine Molotov (or possibly, but not probably, Beria) as Stalin's successor because that's par for HT's course.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 07:50, January 18, 2018 (UTC) :::You could have the Anti-Party group win in 1957, too. That would negate Khrushchev, insure a Soviet hard line, and account for the changes we do know about, like Cuba, which would have taken place only five years later. (This could also be the original POD of The Valley-Westside War, come to think of it). Obviously, skipping Khrushchev altogether is probably the easiest way to go. TR (talk) 17:24, January 18, 2018 (UTC) LIbAk Jonathan, in every other titles page, we list the "Other Holders" section in OTL order as much as possible. As Lenin is still a leader in an alternate world, and he's still the first leader of the USSR in LibAk, he should go on top. TR (talk) 16:56, August 2, 2018 (UTC) War World Series Does the WWS give us any leaders of USSR 2.0?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:15, November 15, 2019 (UTC) :CoDominium: Revolt on War World takes place during that time frame. "Hang Together" is Turtledove's only contribution and there was no mention there. His other stories take place centuries later, after the collapse of the CoDominium, the rise of the Empire of Man and its subsequent collapse. Haven is isolated for centuries after. ML4E (talk) 00:17, November 16, 2019 (UTC)